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bigpappa
Full Member

United Kingdom
66 Posts

Posted - 18/03/2010 :  08:02:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
anyone see this program last night where the workforce of the refuse department in blaenau gwent Banned the boss ( well some did )
if you did any thoughts

Cae
Super Member

2289 Posts

Posted - 18/03/2010 :  12:30:28 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep- I saw it- there was a forum member on there too so I'm keeping shush!

Edited by - Cae on 18/03/2010 12:31:42
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pierre
Webmaster

United Kingdom
12208 Posts

Posted - 18/03/2010 :  12:35:24 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I seen it. Not sure what to think about the bloke from the polly (err, sorry University).

The bit about 9 blokes working in the garage with 8 people support then in "the office" was an eye opener.

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uncle bob
Super Member

United Kingdom
2275 Posts

Posted - 18/03/2010 :  13:19:42 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yes that's what’s called jobs for the boys,
we live in such an affluent area and we can afford these things

Edited by - uncle bob on 18/03/2010 13:26:12
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bigpappa
Full Member

United Kingdom
66 Posts

Posted - 18/03/2010 :  16:07:32 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
26 bosses in the environmental department
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kay16
Super Member

1974 Posts

Posted - 18/03/2010 :  17:10:06 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
makes you wonder where our council is going to! Think of all the wages they could save and the money be put to better use---road repairs for one,full re-surface not patching.Yep i know i'm in a moany mood today---sorry.
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Samstan
Super Member

827 Posts

Posted - 19/03/2010 :  07:14:06 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I watched it along with my OH and we both came to the same conclusion - we want the 'expert's' job!

From what we can see all he did was go in, stir up a bit of anamosity and then use these feelings to encourage the guys on the shop floor to take on more responsibility for the same pay! He re-trained a manager who wouldn't let go and trust his work force to do their job and left another couple of guys in a pretty untenable position where they ended up leaving their jobs. I also notice the merging of the office staff involved what looked like new desks (so paid for by us the council tax payers). Also if its so effective now in terms of cost and efficiency why are we about to go to fortnightly collections?! And I assume these new systems are so effective they will be rolled ouit across the council over the next few months so next year we won't get hit with above inflation Council Tax increases?
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lilly
Advanced Member

United Kingdom
393 Posts

Posted - 19/03/2010 :  15:48:34 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes I seen it too.
I was amazed by the vocal bin man who said that he had been doing this job for thirty years.
Can you believe that he said that he wouldn't know what to do on Monday morning if the boss wasn't there, God help him, just how long will he have to be employed before he knows what his duties are.

I was pleased with the response of the garage mechanics. Their boss had been a little Hitler, making their working days unhappy, wouldn't even let them have the radio on, mean man. He thought they could never manage without him, how wrong he was !!
It was good to see him dancing like a puppet for those men on their night out. He seemed to have learned his lesson.
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Business Doctor
Junior Member

United Kingdom
9 Posts

Posted - 20/03/2010 :  08:03:51 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,
I hope this is okay to add my comments to your debate. I live close honest, Ebbw Vale.

I am the ‘Expert’ who was the change agent in this programme. I like the comments above, but if I may provide some context to the programme, explanation and update to the current situation.

This idea started 10 years ago for me, when at the LSE (a real University ;-)) I met a man called Ricardo Semlar. He owned a company of 4000 staff, made everything from ship pumps to Social Services, without a single manager in sight. It was remarkable. An alternative from the ‘Machine’ idea of an organisation where people are treated like cogs and not humans. A bit later I discovered a Complexity Theory or Human Systems thinking, which in simple terms explained how we ‘operated’ as people in our system, life and this theory underpins the change.

So why BGCBC? I started BGCBC over two years ago when the CEO Robbie Morrison invited me in to talk to the Senior Management. They were looking to change the way Public Service managed, whilst improving performance with ever decreasing finance. My theory, tried and tested in Business we thought could do the trick.

I started with all the Senior managers, then as an experiment to prove it can be done, Alan Reed volunteered his department for the change and this started last October with the BBC in pursuit.

This was NEVER about getting rid of managers (people) only management (the thing they get paid to do). If you get frontline staff to realise that they know the job best, that they can change it to do things better, then the results are amazing. Despite the impression from the programme it took two months to gain trust from staff, get them understand they can change the ‘system’ and deliver a better service to the people of BG.

There are now no managers left in Environmental Service only a few leaders, and they change according to experience, responsibility, project and needs of customers and councillors. The money saved by this experiment was/is being invested for the most part back into front line service. This is after all the main purpose of this programme. Service improvement and innovation.

You also have to remember that the Binmen and the garage bosses, were the product of the BGCBC system. They have behaved, acted this way, I suppose simply as that was what the system expected. No one in BG goes to work to do a bad job that I've come across in the past few months. Indeed the frontline staff work incredible hard, get lambasted wrongly by awful weekly publications and before my project began, with they opinions ignored.

The Binmen have come on board and after five months they are now ‘self-managing’, looking to improve services their way and helping to achieve a huge recycling target.
I also have to add that as the ‘Expert’ in all this, I never got paid a penny. I did this to prove to everyone, Councillors more than anyone that if you ask the staff, trust them and let them do it their way to please the public, its more effective, less expensive and faster.

Not bad for BGCBC….. they are now the focus around the UK…. Watch this space

Dr Paul Thomas
From the Polly….
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Fluffpants
Full Member

107 Posts

Posted - 20/03/2010 :  11:23:51 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well said, I watched the programme myself half hidden behind a cushion not really knowing what to expect. I was pleasantly surprised at the outcome. However, BGCBC do have to make cutbacks in thier workforce and so I understand the trepidation of those taking part.

Indeed we do need to watch this space..............
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pierre
Webmaster

United Kingdom
12208 Posts

Posted - 20/03/2010 :  18:04:58 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Paul, and welcome,

Ebbw you say, well play your cards right and we will give you the password for the gatehouse at the top of hilltop so you can pop over where the grass is greener

Some initial questions questions after watching the program are:

1. Can you please in your words, what is the difference is between empowerment and management at BGBCC?

2. Saying at people would not loose their job is a hell of a statement to make when the people paying their wages is the tax payer. If these people get moved to "other" jobs, would they retain their pay structure, and would they be the right person for the job anyway? Did they apply for the job process with everybody else ? What happens at the end of the process and you got people left over, that do not want to take on a different job?

3. At the end it said that the garage at BGBCC was doing so well it was offering MOT's. Hold on a minute. That means its in direct competition with local garages (including garages in Tredegar), that must pay business rates to trade, as well as pay for the running costs. Is this fair ?

4. Do they still do a good pint in the Otley arms outside the polly ?

_________________________________________
News & Information on Tredegar since 1991
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Business Doctor
Junior Member

United Kingdom
9 Posts

Posted - 21/03/2010 :  18:40:24 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Hello Pierre,

Okay here goes...

1. The difference with empowerment and the 'management world' is, empowerment truly gives power to the frontline staff. This brings not only power to do things the way they want, but much more importantly responsibility. The staff become responsible for when it goes right, and more importantly when it goes wrong. Once staff realise that this is the case, they are then (in my world) able to do things to make sure they do more of the right things to meet service needs and if the wrong thing happens they correct it straight away (and own-up so that learning takes place). There is no waiting for a manager to come up with ideas to make things better or worse a committee! True empowered workforce, not the pretend stuff, found in management speak is rare. I have only found around 30 companies in the world, with 'my' Environmental Service being the 31st...


2. I am afraid I have only limited powers in this change process. In the Private Sector, yes those found wanting, i.e. not adding value to the service or customer 'product', most managers, would be placed to frontline, salary reduced, or made redundant. However with my work into Public Sector, I'm not a hatchet man, and therefor I only undertook this change if we could insure any 'spare' people could and would be found jobs in vacant roles. There were only two people in this category the others resigned for outside jobs or retired. My principles are quite simple, add value to the customer, change to ensure you do, or move on, as we don't want people who simply 'manage' others or worse still feed the beast of bureaucracy. Some paper work is needed, vital in some instance, but that is a disease in most companies with no one ever asking 'do we need to do this paper work' and indeed more vital 'does doing this help the customers of BG'. We say 'why, why and the why' three times and if it stands up to this its continued. If the culture of audit, Performance measures, reports, etc., which all add huge costs, we will not have any frontline service left! (bytheway I blame WAG for this increase not LG's)


3. The guys in the garage are looking to help us (rate payers) by seeking income from elsewhere. They are looking to become self-sustaining so they reduce the Local Gov. burden. They are also well aware of damaging local business and therefor are seeking to 'join' with other garages and only do commercial contracts, big fleets, lorries etc. They have always offered MOT to cars and taxis, and again they are very careful to have competitive rates. Anyhow their Competitive Advantage is not cost, but quality. We are monitoring the change very carefully though, but this is the same as a gym v leisure centre I suppose. They know they have to change to remain, but not at cost to others.


4. Oh the Otley Arms...... good memories there.... yes the pint is still stunning, however the student trade there has dropped. There are too many trendy wine bars and student cyber-cafes now. Bring back the Polly I say.....
Paul
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Webteam
Webteam

23554 Posts

Posted - 22/03/2010 :  14:10:39 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ban the boss, says business doc
Source: BBC

Business expert Dr Paul Thomas urges Blaenau Gwent council to give more responsibility to its workers in a new programme for BBC One Wales.

Dr Thomas, from the University of Glamorgan, transfers to TV following his previous role as The Business Doctor on BBC Radio Wales.

Ban The Boss shows what happens when council bosses agree to try his ideas with the refuse and recycling team.

The programme goes out on BBC One Wales on Wednesday 17 March at 2100 GMT.

Like local authorities across the UK, Blaenau Gwent Council is under pressure to save money but improve services.

As with other institutions, some practices have been set in stone with things done the same way over many years, just because it's the way it's always been.

Dr Thomas thinks it's time for a revolution in management thinking.

In short, he wants to remove managers and allow workers to take that responsibility for themselves.

In the programme, his mission is to get the council's refuse workers, and the recycling and transport teams, to buy in to his vision - to see them making decisions themselves.

In a bid to prove to them they can do it he removes the managers for a period of time, handing responsibility for the day job over to those on the front line.

"It was tough, horrific in the first couple of months because of the fear of change," said Dr Thomas, in an interview on BBC Radio Wales.

"Managers bought into it - like turkeys voting for Christmas - but the staff were a lot more suspicious of my intentions.

"This is huge for them - I'm going in and upsetting ten, twenty, thirty years of culture and mindset.

"They were the workers - they were there to be told what to do and I'm going in and saying you guys can actually run things better than the management."

The transport workers are the keenest to change, and embrace the idea with enthusiasm.

The recyclers, although lagging a little behind, start to see the benefits when they realise they can spread their recycling message into schools and among the public.

Dr Thomas said: "Working on this programme has been a fantastic opportunity to put my organisational theories into practice and to raise the profile of my work and that of the Glamorgan Business School."

In January a report by the Keep Wales Tidy campaign group named Blaenau Gwent as one of the worst areas of Wales for litter.

The council said the survey results coincided with the launch of a campaign to tidy up its streets.



_________________________________________
News & Infornmation on Tredegar since 1991
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tony
Full Member

United Kingdom
11 Posts

Posted - 24/03/2010 :  22:22:06 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BGCBC don't do bad charging taxis a mere £150 for a basic MOT
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Webteam
Webteam

23554 Posts

Posted - 29/03/2010 :  14:59:12 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Below found in the Gwent Gazette(c)



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News & Information on Tredegar since 1991
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Business Doctor
Junior Member

United Kingdom
9 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2010 :  10:44:36 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here are some of the comments I've received over the past few days following my 'Ban the Boss' programme on BBC One.


“My wife and I watched the programme on iplayer tonight and were so impressed with what you're doing. It was so inspiring to watch.”

“Just wanted to say how much I enjoyed "Ban the Boss" on Wednesday evening. I've thought for a longtime that some Managers are not needed. I work at a Hospital and was wondering if you've ever reorganised an NHS Trust?”

“Brilliant program, at one stage it looked as if the public sector was a #8232;step too far, however you had the tenacity (and the BBC camera crew) to stay with it.”

“Congratulations on a great effort.”

“Having just seen your programme this evening I wanted to congratulate you on#8232;an excellent piece of work. Having an interest in business myself … it raised some important points. I especially enjoyed the format of the programme in which you provided commentary to the work which you were undertaking.”#8232;

“Well done again and definitely an hours TV worth spent viewing!”

"Having just watched your programme on BBC1 Wales I can only say how impressed I was….I wish you lots of luck with your campaign to rid the world of managers"

If managers and traditional academics think this liberation is going away.......
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pierre
Webmaster

United Kingdom
12208 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2010 :  15:53:52 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are you making any more films Paul ?

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News & Information on Tredegar since 1991
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Webteam
Webteam

23554 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2010 :  17:02:28 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Edit below.....



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News & Information on Tredegar since 1991
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Business Doctor
Junior Member

United Kingdom
9 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2010 :  17:48:57 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Pierre,

Yes, is the simple answer to your question. This is why I am taking all the comments here and other places onboard. If we can answer the questions, left out in this programme and make sure they are there in the next, it should be an even better programme. Clear, less 'mixed opinion' and more emphasis on my theory.

I am still working with Monwel in Ebbw Vale (a great place, with brilliant bunch of people) and moving into a variety of companies.

The next programmes I hope will be in small/medium manufacturing companies. They are much, much easier to turn around to be honest.

However I have to say after 5 months with BGCBC I am looking forward to a few days rest.

Cheers and have a great weekend
Paul
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Business Doctor
Junior Member

United Kingdom
9 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2010 :  17:52:08 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Webteam.... would it be possible to have a copy of your edit above? I don't have any clips at all and would love to have some bits to promote BGCBC... would this be possible?
Paul
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Webteam
Webteam

23554 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2010 :  18:22:32 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Webteam.... would it be possible to have a copy of your edit above? I don't have any clips at all and would love to have some bits to promote BGCBC... would this be possible?
Paul


Hello Paul,

If you send an e-mail to webteam@tredegar.co.uk we will arrange it for you. No problem.

_________________________________________
News & Information on Tredegar since 1991
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Business Doctor
Junior Member

United Kingdom
9 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2010 :  18:40:09 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just done... thank you! Great stuff
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sandpaper
Full Member

72 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2010 :  20:30:25 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TjXy2pJXJI
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philj78
Advanced Member

181 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2010 :  22:57:35 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i have sent that youtube link to people from all over the UK, and the world, i must say paul people are quite inspired. Yet again another idea pounced upon buy a Welsh person that looks to turn turn the world into a better place. 10/10
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sandpaper
Full Member

72 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2010 :  01:58:09 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Ban the Boss and Ban the Bad thinking......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et9r66Pz7dg
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Business Doctor
Junior Member

United Kingdom
9 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2010 :  20:45:11 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Philj78
Yes its a great time to be Welsh, and in particular being in BG. We are leading the way in Public Sector reform. Lets hope the WAG listen....

Cheers
Paul
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