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 Name changes from 'Rows' to Streets.
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garaboto
Full Member

France
138 Posts

Posted - 27/02/2014 :  20:21:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just been reading a topic where the rows were eventually given street names. I wasn't really aware of this, so would be grateful for some guidance on the following as I am finding it very confusing :

1841 census - 7th row, one of small rows, Bedwelty, Manmoel.
1851 census - 220 Scybor Wen (sic) which I know is Ysguborwen
1851 birth certificate - White Barn - ditto -
1861 census - 27 6 Row, River Row, Bedwelty.
1871 census - 211 Skiborwen (sic) which I know is Ysguborwen.
1881 census - 12 Row 182, Bedwelty. back Sirhowy Inn?
1891 census - Prince Llewelyn, Llangynyder, Brecknockshire
1891 marriage - 19 row Sirhowy
1893 birth certificate - Swcrfa, Dukestown.

These entries are all for my family, maybe some of these places have long gone, but if anyone can jog their memory and come up with some street names, that would be really helpful.

Many thanks - Gwen



fredd
Super Member

6216 Posts

Posted - 27/02/2014 :  21:18:43 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Gwen, You might find this hard to beleive, The seventh on your list is / was actually Very close to or even within yards of , Ebenezer and Carmel chapel, .. Scrwfa / Dukestown, .. Tredegar

Edited by - fredd on 27/02/2014 21:21:22
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fredd
Super Member

6216 Posts

Posted - 27/02/2014 :  21:48:17 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here It Is, With many Thanks to Sassafras.


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emrys
Advanced Member

715 Posts

Posted - 27/02/2014 :  22:05:40 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gwen,Note that the Prince Llewllyn pub as shown by fredd was addressed as being in Llangynidir, Brecs etc,, until 1915 when the county boundaries were changed and it "moved" to Monouthshire. Emrys
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garaboto
Full Member

France
138 Posts

Posted - 27/02/2014 :  22:21:13 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Fredd, well thank you so much for that information and the photo. Amazing that it still exists - my Great Grandmother and Grandmother were there in the 1891 census and her son David Vane was born in Scrwfa, no other address, in 1893, I think my Grandmother married a Henry Evans but somewhere between 1891 and 1893 he changed his name to Vane and he was a musician/pianist, maybe played the music-halls, cinemas etc. Don't know what happened to him but he died before 1901 somewhere.

I am of course presuming they were living at the Inn - do you know whether there were houses nearby?

best wishes Gwen
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garaboto
Full Member

France
138 Posts

Posted - 27/02/2014 :  22:24:06 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes Emrys thank you, I remember that the boundaries were changed, it baffled me for some time, as it has many others who are doing family research I am sure.

Gwen
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Exbrompton
Advanced Member

United Kingdom
253 Posts

Posted - 27/02/2014 :  22:48:50 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
River Row is behind Vale Terr.overlooking the river
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garaboto
Full Member

France
138 Posts

Posted - 27/02/2014 :  22:52:48 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for that Exbrompton - I'll see if i can find that on the map

Gwen
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fredd
Super Member

6216 Posts

Posted - 27/02/2014 :  23:04:54 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry Gwen it, Dose'nt still exist, There were Lots of Homes Nearby Though !
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Daleks
Advanced Member

United Kingdom
482 Posts

Posted - 28/02/2014 :  00:23:43 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
19th Row Sirhowy is the block of houses in Beaufort Road between the Pentecostal Chapel and Sirhowy Inn. 18th Row is the block of houses in Beaufort Road between where Cartwright's shop used to be and King Street.20th Row is the block of houses in Beaufort Road between Sirhowy Inn and where 3 Storey Houses used to be and the latter was known as 21st Row. I think I'm correct in saying this since my family lived in all these places and I've traced them on various censi at these locations.Addresses prior to being given names seem to have been identified by a number usually in the 200's followed by a row No. eg 18th Row etc., exactly at what point in time the change occurred is still a mystery to me and am open to suggestions. Also Ysguborwen is the welsh for White Barn so I presume they are the same location.

Edited by - Daleks on 28/02/2014 00:25:59
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garaboto
Full Member

France
138 Posts

Posted - 28/02/2014 :  10:50:36 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Daleks, I wondered if the numbers were Ordenance survey or plots of land numbers? Would all my addresses be roughly in the same area? My G.Grandfather was killed in No.2 pit Sirhowy which apparently was called Evan Davies pit and was situated by the tips behind Laburnum Avenue - is this the same area as 19 row on Beaufort Road? I know his inquest was done in Sirhowy Inn.
I have found Vale Terrace on the map so suppose the long-gone River row was below that nearer to the river.
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Exbrompton
Advanced Member

United Kingdom
253 Posts

Posted - 28/02/2014 :  11:15:47 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
River Row.Look at the 1878map on the forum.you will see Pochin Cres.The two streets
Behind it was called River Row but is not named on the map
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Daleks
Advanced Member

United Kingdom
482 Posts

Posted - 28/02/2014 :  14:40:57 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No.2 Pit Sirhowy couldn't have been where you described it since Laburnam Avenue is a considerable distance away from Sirhowy it being in Ashvale on the other side of the valley towards Bryn Bach. 19th Row was that part of Beaufort Road just down from Sirhowy Inn.The only Pits in Sirhowy that I can think of were No.4 & No.9 Pits but there were several Levels or drift mines in the Sirhowy area as well as the Iron Works of course.River Row still exists down the "Tip" and is located as described by Exbrompton. Scwrfa (which can be interpreted to mean scouring place presumably in connection with the washing of iron ore for the Sirhowy Iron Works) is the low lying part of Dukestown alongside the River Sirhowy which stretches from the latter's confluence with the Nant Melyn brook near Mechanics Square up as far as the Catholic Church then veers off to the right up Farmers Hill where it then joins with Saint Lukes Road in Dukestown, this being the main through route prior to Dukesmeadow being built in the early 1960's. Dukesmeadow as it is today is where the farms Glan Rhyd Isaf and Glan Rhyd Uchaf were situated and where the Bowens and Robins families respectively lived.

quote:
Originally posted by garaboto

Thanks Daleks, I wondered if the numbers were Ordenance survey or plots of land numbers? Would all my addresses be roughly in the same area? My G.Grandfather was killed in No.2 pit Sirhowy which apparently was called Evan Davies pit and was situated by the tips behind Laburnum Avenue - is this the same area as 19 row on Beaufort Road? I know his inquest was done in Sirhowy Inn.
I have found Vale Terrace on the map so suppose the long-gone River row was below that nearer to the river.


Edited by - Daleks on 28/02/2014 14:58:09
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garaboto
Full Member

France
138 Posts

Posted - 28/02/2014 :  16:03:11 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got that information from the Tredegar timeline Daleks - '1820 pit no 2 Evan Davies' I am at a disadvantage as I don't know the area. I googled River Row and it came up with the Rhiw and I seem to remember getting lost down there last May when I visited Oakdale and I was looking for the Cwrt-y-bella cemetery. In fact I got lost in a lot of places ;-)
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pierre
Webmaster

United Kingdom
13908 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2014 :  10:53:48 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Many thanks to Dalex41 for sending in the picture below:

Glan Rhyd Isaf - aka Robins' Field.




_________________________________________
News & Information on Tredegar since 1991.
Visit the Tredegar Timeline Project at : www.TredegarTimeline.co.uk
Search on this website is your friend!
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garaboto
Full Member

France
138 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2014 :  16:24:06 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the photo Pierre and Daleks. I just found a note I had made on the locality covered by 1861 census : 'That part of Tredegar comprising River Row, Park Place and Tip Row' so that confirms what you think. When I came over last year, I went to a little museum in Tredegar Library and there was a map on the wall with all the various pits pin-pointed, I think I have a photo of it showing No. 2 pit, will have a look. Thanks for your continued help. Gwen
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garaboto
Full Member

France
138 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2014 :  16:33:37 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have found the map but don't know how to post it here.
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milkman
Super Member

United Kingdom
1632 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2014 :  20:37:27 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They are not that clear but behind Robins's farm are "The Huts", wooden buildings a bit like pre-fabs. They were built in the 20s or 30s and I understand from a chap who lived there that they were very warm and comfortable.
Removed in the 1960s or thereabouts
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Daleks
Advanced Member

United Kingdom
482 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2014 :  00:24:42 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Minyrafon aka "The Huts" was where Roderick Hill Court is today.
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pierre
Webmaster

United Kingdom
13908 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2014 :  08:07:42 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Any thoughts on the approx age of that photo of the farm anybody ?

_________________________________________
News & Information on Tredegar since 1991.
Visit the Tredegar Timeline Project at : www.TredegarTimeline.co.uk
Search on this website is your friend!
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indarkistplumstead
Advanced Member

United Kingdom
331 Posts

Posted - 18/04/2014 :  13:19:05 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
regarding this I too have been digging into the family history and come across an address saying 316 24th row I ssume that means number 316 on 24th row but where exactly is that today?? I have lived in sirhowy during my early childhood but never hear of 24th row rhoslan-yes even 'skipper wen' I am also interested where hollybush in scurfa was it a name of a pub or someone's house.
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zx123
Full Member

82 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2014 :  22:46:12 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,
Thanks for the information about the location of the different rows in Sirhowy. My Great Grandfather x3 lived in No.281, 21st Row, which was also known as 3 storey. I was looking for this information for a long time.

Edited by - zx123 on 01/06/2014 22:46:58
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garaboto
Full Member

France
138 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2014 :  19:00:31 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can I say a big thanks to Pierre for finally localising the Sihowy number 2 pit for me.
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