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Hatty
Full Member

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 20/01/2011 :  19:26:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does anyone know what is happening with the land on the former gas works in Vale Terrace? I live close to the site and have just lost a sale of my house as the buyers said they found out that the land had been approved for social housing. Any information would be great

kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 20/01/2011 :  20:15:51 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So sorry to hear that Hattie. As far as i'm aware the owner put in for planning permission for 27 houses [private i think] but they have withdrawn that now [which when i heard i thought it was strange] but i hadn't heard anything about social housing! If you want i will try and make a few inquire's and see what's what.I just hope it's not what i'm thinking and United Welsh haven't got their grubby hands on it as this will then be 3 sites with less than half a mile between them. Hope i'm wrong.
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kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 20/01/2011 :  20:17:49 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry for spelling your name wrong and it will be 4 sites as i forgot about the cottage homes!
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Hatty
Full Member

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 20/01/2011 :  20:29:29 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That would be fantastic Kay - thank you very much
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kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 20/01/2011 :  20:38:08 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just sent an email so waiting for a reply.As soon as i get it i will let you know.
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kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  00:41:26 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just had some info, it's a bit long and i need to read through it and i'm off to bed but i will let you know 1st thing in the morning but what i can make out is it's down to BGCBCouncil again.
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kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  10:55:17 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Hatty, had an email back late last night with the following info. By the looks of it Blaenau Gwent County Borough Council have included this land in what is called the Urban Development Plan as a site available for housing- specifically suitable for social housing. It's listed in the UDP as a site available for housing 15 units [number is H2/2 Gas Works if you want to look it up on the BGCBC site]. The plan is up-dated every 10yrs and will be replaced by a new one called Local Development Plan, which they are doing at the moment.In this new LDP there are sites which people have asked the council to look at rebuilding and it includes the gas works but they may/may not be included in this new plan, it also includes THE AMBULANCE STATION-which is very worrying!!!! By the looks of it when the search's were done all this would have come up and maybe all planning applications in this area-weather passed or not. I also know the land is very contaminated and maybe this is why the land owner withdrew his planning application as it would cost too much to sort out. Hope i've been of some help to you.
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Hatty
Full Member

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  15:03:41 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you for all your efforts. On the BG website it states the permission is with the planning committee - whatever that means. I has also heard that the land was too contaminated to make it financially viable to build on it too. This would be of major importance due to the economic climate I would have thought! Doesnt help my plight though as even the suggestion of social housing was enough to put my buyers off - not a very charitable approach for a pastor was it
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kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  16:53:35 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's ok Hatty glad i could help. One thing i will say is keep an eye on thing's as even though the land is contaminated some big developer that does social housing [yes them again U/Welsh] might not see that as a problem [contamination was on Woodfield Road too] so like i said please keep an eye on things for your own sake. If you need anymore info/help just ask ok and if your house is the one i'm thinking of it's a cracker, a beautiful house. Good luck.
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kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  17:11:21 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Forgot to say that just because it's down as a possible site DOES NOT mean it will/can be built on, it's just a suggestion that's all. I've lived down here [just round the corner from you] all my life and ever since they knocked the gas work's down there has been a rumour of possible houses on that site and as of yet they still haven't appeared so it could be another 20/30 years and we still could be waiting.
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pierre
Webmaster

United Kingdom
13902 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  17:54:15 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here you go........

..also, when the gas works was originally closed down, it was noted that they said that the land could never be built on for residential homes because of land contamination.....

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kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  18:18:03 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I haven't read it myself but i've been told that it say's "mixed" development so what does mixed mean? Houses and business? garages? it seems so vague like the planning/council are trying to cover all options for whoever applies for planning permission.When all said and done i would not fancy living on any bit of that land even if they gave me a house for nothing on it!
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fredd
Super Member

6216 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  18:54:34 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
..It seems to me that they'll do just as they please anyway..!! .... The ground contamination didn't bother them on the Woodfield Road site did it ? ,They just moved some of it to a different part of the site , And Hey Presto..!! Built straight on top of it......
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kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  19:19:18 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nice one Fredd! and that is what worries me if say for some reason U/Welsh get their hands on this plot that is exactly what they will do,just dig it up,move it from A to B to C and back again and everything is hunky-dory, no money spent and cost's kept down and please don't anybody say the council won't allow them to get away with that---they will,trust me!
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fredd
Super Member

6216 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  20:00:33 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kay16

Sorry for spelling your name wrong and it will be 4 sites as i forgot about the cottage homes!

....I seem to recall talk of Bethal Avenue and United Welsh as well......
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Hatty
Full Member

United Kingdom
18 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  20:27:26 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks again for the information - that newspaper cutting was great thank you Pierre
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kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 21/01/2011 :  20:30:40 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh i forgot that one Fredd,even though it's a tiny bit further away,so that could, in time, be 5 development's in such a small area and that's without the odd private house they have bought in the terrace street's down this end and there are quite a few of those.
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pierre
Webmaster

United Kingdom
13902 Posts

Posted - 22/01/2011 :  11:40:25 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It does amaze me with the parking issues in that part of town, with the snooker hell, the shop next door to the snooker hall, kids r us, the flats in the old Monwell building, and the large amount of cars which go to the Tredegar Orpheus, and the large funerals at St James Church, why don't they use the land for parking !

Its simple, why don't the council think about the community instead of trying to squeeze housing into every spare gap!

Common sense seams to go out of the window.......

It does appear that the councilors from Tredegar are aether too week, clueless, or are simply voted down by the councilors from other town in Blaenau-Gwent.

The planning policy for the area needs to be re-addressed, and amendments made after consultation with the community.......

Sorry if I've gone on a bit........

Pierre

_________________________________________
News & Information on Tredegar since 1991
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kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 22/01/2011 :  12:17:14 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We've been trying for years to get that bit of land made into a carpark because, like it's been said, we thought that no-one could build on it as it was so contaminated.We have been telling anyone who is anyone for years that it's flipping mental down here on certain times with the parking [the police know as they have been called out a few times over the years with problems between residents and orpheus people] as we have:- Snooker hall,kidzrus [which are 1 of the worse,they just park and double park anywhere],the shop in Park Place,St James Church,Georgetown School[won't go there!] and last but definatley not least Tredegar Ruddy Orpheus flipping Hall who are by far the worse out of all of these,these people have no concideration for the residents at all [i could go on all day about incidents with them honest!]and a car park would solve maybe three quaters of the problem [not all as you will always get 1 lazy so-so who will not walk 2 feet!].It would also make life a lot easier for the Tredegar-Newport stagecoach bus drivers as on a Wednesday,Friday and sometimes saturday nights [orpheus nights] they get stuck on Poplar Road just outside the church where the road bends for upto 15mins at a time as they can't get through because of cars belonging to people in the choir. We also tried with the Woodfield Road site to get that turned into a carpark but no go on that one too.It looks like everything is down to what makes the most money these day's and a free carpark no matter how much easier it make things for the locals sadly doesn't make anyone any money does it!Again sorry for the long post.
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kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 22/01/2011 :  12:51:44 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pierre it's not that Town Council are week or clueless believe me, it's a case of BGCBC for some reason WILL NOT/DO NOT back anything that they have requested.I promise you they have tried on certain things and i have seen it for myself all the problem's they have to face when they ask BGCBC for anything,they know what needs to be done and what they want but get no support from BGCBC at all [i was also there on Wednesday to see for myself what a bunch of slimey,slippery,mis-directing [lying in other words to me and you]lot this Indy run council are.As you know on past posts i have not always been in support of Tred Town Council,i have always thought,like everyone else, well what the hell are they doing,why haven't they done this,come on it's not rocket sicence to see what state our town is in what are they doing about it-zilch but if the thing's i have seen over the past 18 months[the problems they have even getting a written reply from BGCBC is unbelievable] are even the tip of the iceberg no wonder they are so frustrated. I do feel for them now i have had just a taste of what they face.And no i am not and never have been a labour supporter,ever, in my life[so it's not political] before anyone asks.
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pierre
Webmaster

United Kingdom
13902 Posts

Posted - 22/01/2011 :  15:05:49 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kay16

Pierre it's not that Town Council are week or clueless believe me,


You have read this www.tredegar.co.uk/ttc

Sorry, like you, I take it as a find it - are they worth 120,000 of tax payers money (for the pockets of people in Tregar, and nothing else) if they cannot / connot do anything usefull ?

The answer is no. Good on them for trying, but come on, 120,00 for trying is simply not good enough. In the mean time the town slips down hill evenmore, and they come back to us for more money?

I ask them over a year ago "why they increased the council tax for the people of Tredegar by 5%, when we were in the middle of the biggest depression since the war..", and they could not give me an answer....

Look at the graph below, then look out of your window...
Something is not right.......

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kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 22/01/2011 :  16:05:15 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know Pierre, you can't argue with proof of written fact's and figure's and i'm not and as you if i was looking at those figure's maybe 2 years ago i would be the first to say "sack the lot,why are we paying all this council tax for bugger all[my other half is still saying this,he doesn't want to pay next years c/tax until all the roads are sorted out in Tredegar instead of Ebbw]what the hell are you doing with our money" believe me i would be fighting you off to stand first in the queue and i'm not so naive to think that evrything/decision they make is correct [their objection to burger van on the prom is an example-stupid objection] but i can only speak as i find and what i have seen first hand myself is,and i will get shot down in flames for this on here, i have seen them try their utmost best and i'm not talking just our ward councillors,every ward in Tredegar,they stood as a town for a town and gave and are still giving us if we have any problems 1000% support and help,they have shown up in every meeting we have held [unlike some BGCBC councillors who were asked to attend and never showed their face's and like our A.M.Member who came to only 1 meeting when she was asked to all of them and this is her so-called baby so if she gave us this little time what TIME does she give to thing's that don't matter to her? Even Alun Davies has been down here to see how thing's are going and how we are many,many more times over,some visit's we didn't even know about till after he's been, than Mrs Law has, in fact since building started last may/june we have seen her---well WE'VE NOT SEE SIGHT NOR SOUND OF HER!]So like i said i have seen them give support,time and a lot of effort and work behind the scene's to us and i can only guess if they have done this for us there must be other thing's/people they have helped in this way.This is why i think that if we were out of BGCBC and in Caerphilly maybe they would have more say in town matter's and might finally be able to do the job they are there for without banging their head's against a very,very thick brick wall.Sorry it's so long.
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Concerned
Full Member

11 Posts

Posted - 23/02/2011 :  12:14:41 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Planning consent was granted on 3rd Feb last for up to 25 dwellings. From outline plans seen, the dwellings will be 2 and 3 storey and terraced on all 3 sides of the site. The original UDP was for 15 dwellings with the mature tree area on the north east part of the site (junction of Rawlinson Tce. with Poplar Rd.) being retained. This has now increased to 25 dwellings with the future of the trees in doubt. The applicant, Wales and West Utilities, has to clean up the site ie. remove contaminated ground and a large pit of coal tar. This can be done in one of two ways. A base level remediation will leave the site safe but not suitable for housing. A full remediation will cost more but the site will then be safe for housing. Wales and West Utilities hope to recover the cost of remediation from the sale of the site to a property developer. Obviously the more dwellings than can be squeezed into the site the higher the value of the site. BGCBC planning department is sympathetic to WWU costs and did not insist on any planning gain demands even though this development will put pressure on the schools in the area.
A final note is just to mention the current law on contaminated land. The law states that the polluter must pay for the remediation of contaminated ground (termed the Class A appropriate person). If the polluter cannot be found then the landowner must pay for the remediation (termed the Class B appropriate person). It is interesting to note that the original polluters were Tredegar UDC which operated the gas works from the late 19th century up to nationalisation in 1948 and also Wales Gas Board which continued to make gas on the site to about 1955. Wales and West Utilities is the landowner.
However, BGCBC appears not to have taken enforcement action against WWU but is dealing with the remediation under a planning application which has seen the proposed number of dwellings increase by 70%. Did the original UDP consultation ever mean anything? Within not much more than 2 years BGCBC has approved this increase. It was BGCBC that proposed the original WWU plan for semi-detached houses be changed to terraced houses.
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kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 23/02/2011 :  12:58:06 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yet again BGCBC have sold us down the river and i would not be suprised if we see another U/Welsh site.You mentioned the school's in the area, we have kept on about the extra children from the Woodfield Road site and the extra room never mind the extra budget to accomodate these children [we were told there is not enough space for these children, our councillor keeps saying there is room but i was told that to make room for them the class numbers will have to go up a fair bit,think they have about 30 in class at mo but not sure] so god help any more i know they won't be happy.
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Concerned
Full Member

11 Posts

Posted - 23/02/2011 :  13:33:06 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kay16,
The planning gain I mentioned was covering the S106 obligations of the applicant which BGCBC decided not to enforce because of its sympathetic approach to the applicant in view of the high remediation costs. In the planning report was a consultation response from Georgetown Primary which asked for a contribution of 66k and Tredegar Comp. which asked for 72k. It does worry me that BGCBC can make such generous concessions when probably no one in planning control is affected. My 16 year old son is in Tredegar Comp. and will finish his GCSE's this year. He would like to do science for A level but it looks as though the school will not offer Physics. We now have to think about him travelling to Crosskeys.
What most people do not realise is that Wales and West Utilities is 50% owned by a rich Australian investment banking group, the Macquarie Group. Wikipedia has a comment for anyone joining the staff as joining the "Millionaires Club". I cannot believe that this successful group had not fully investigated all aspects when it acquired the company (part of Transco for Wales and the West) from National Grid including potential liabilities for the contaminated sites it was taking over. WWU has given National Grid indemnity from such remediation costs and this must have been reflected in its purchase price. However BGCBC has told me that it is only dealing with the current situation ie. the cost of remediation set against the final selling price of the site. This is totally wrong. If WWU has already been compensated for such costs in its purchase price then it is not acceptable for BGCBC to seek to assist WWU either by waiving S106 obligations or perhaps by approving an over intensive development (15 dwellings to 25) which will affect all our lives in the future.
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kay16
Super Member

2140 Posts

Posted - 23/02/2011 :  13:57:05 Link directly to this reply  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nothing suprises me anymore regarding BGCBC and Planning, nothing at all!I'm sure they just make the rules up as they go along to suit themselves especially if they have an interest in that site. So what is happening with the house next to all of this? I'm suprised they haven't put a compulsory purchase order on it just to make things a bit easier for the developer.
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